Tom Seaver vs. Dock Ellis

Dock Ellis

Last week, you may recall, upon the death of Tom Seaver, I posted a summary of the times that Pirates ace pitcher Steve Blass matched up on the mound against Mets ace Seaver. 

 http://grandstander.blogspot.com/2020/09/tom-seaver-vs-steve-blass.html 

You will see that I was surprised that such a matchup took place only six times over the years, and that there was a stretch of two entire seasons where the two didn't face each other at all.  So that got me to wondering: perhaps Seaver matched up more frequently with the Pirates other  ace pitcher of that era, Dock Ellis.  So off I went to www.baseball-almanac.com, run by the esteemed Sean Holtz, and I got my answer:

8/10/70 @ Pgh; Ny 10 - Pgh 2	IP	H	R	ER	BB	K	Decision
Ellis	2	5	5	3	3	1	L
Seaver	9	6	2	2	3	3	W
4/16/71 @ NY; NY 1 - Pgh 0	IP	H	R	ER	BB	K	Decision
Ellis	7	6	1	1	1	6	L
Seaver	9	3	0	0	0	14	W
4/15/72 @ NY; NY 4 - Pgh 0	IP	H	R	ER	BB	K	Decision
Ellis	6	6	4	4	2	2	L
Seaver	6	5	0	0	0	6	W
7/28/72 @Pgh; P 3 - NY 1	IP	H	R	ER	BB	K	Decision
Ellis	9	7	1	1	1	7	W
Seaver	7	4	2	2	4	8	L
7/28/74 @ NY; Pgh 8 - NY 3	IP	H	R	ER	BB	K	Decision
Ellis	8.1	6	3	3	1	6	W
Seaver	4.1	12	8	7	1	6	L
8/3/75 @ NY; P 5 - NY 4	IP	H	R	ER	BB	K	Decision
Ellis	6.1	7	4	3	3	4	ND
Seaver	10	9	4	3	4	5	ND
9/1/75 @ NY; Ny 3 - Pgh 0	IP	H	R	ER	BB	K
Ellis	1	1	0	0	2	0	ND
Seaver	9	4	0	0	1	10	W

As it turns out, the two aces matched up against each other only six times as starters as well, and Ellis appeared in relief against Seaver once late in 1975, so that hardly counts.   And as it was with Blass, there was one entire season, 1973,  when the two did not face each other at all. 

Ellis did a little better against Seaver than teammate Blass did, posting a 2-3 record with two ND, and a 3.49 ERA.  In three of his starts, Pirates batters managed to get him 2, 0, and 0 runs in the way of support.  In those seven games, which includes the Ellis relief appearance, Seaver pitched four complete games and three shutouts.  His record was 4-2, 1 ND, and a 2.32 ERA.  He struck out 52 Pirates in 54.1 innings pitched.  If you take away the July 28, 1974 game, when Seaver gave up 7 earned runs in 4.1 IP, Seaver's ERA against Ellis and the Pirates was 1.26.

Not sure what this proves, other than that Tom Seaver was a great pitcher, even when facing against the opponents' best pitchers, but then, we already knew that.  

Anecdotally, as I was paging through Ellis-vs-Mets box scores, it seemed like Dock Ellis matched up against Jerry Koosman in EVERY Pirates-Mets series, but I didn't take notes, so that is a project for another day.  Ellis also pitched for a bunch of other teams over the years, including the Mets, but he never went up against Seaver in any of those other stops.

Oh, and I can't do a story about Dock Ellis without posting one of the more famous photos of him.

A Follow Up: Tom Seaver vs. The Pittsburgh Pirates

 

As a follow-up to my "Tom Seaver vs. Steve Blass" post from earlier today, let me present to you Seaver's career numbers versus your Pittsburgh Pirates.  Again, data courtesy of Sean Holtz of www.baseball-almanac.com.  

• Games - 53 (52 starts)
• Innings Pitched - 386.2
• Hits - 336
• BB - 87 (7 INT)
• K - 329
• R - 135
• HR - 27
• ER - 124
• W/L - 24-13
• ERA - 2.91

Not bad.

Tom Seaver vs. Steve Blass

 

As Marilyn and I were laying in bed on Wednesday night listening to the Pirates game and hearing the Pirates announcers reminiscing about Tom Seaver, I said that this would have been a good night if Steve Blass were still in the booth.  A contemporary of Seaver's, I was sure that Blass would have had some good tales to tell about going up against him over the years.  "Do you think that they never pitched against each other?" Mrs. Grandstander asked.

Well, I'm sure that they did, but I could offer no specific memories of such games.  So, I turned to my friends at SABR for help, and sure enough, within twenty four hours, I heard from Sean Holtz of Baseball Almanac, and he provided me with links to the box scores for the six times that Tom Seaver and Steve Blass faced each other over the years.  I figured that this called for a Grandstander Spreadsheet:

8/13/67; NY 3 - P 0, @ NY	IP	H	R	ER	BB	K	Decision
Blass	7.2	8	3	3	4	4	L
Seaver	9.0	4	0	0	3	5	W
8/17/67; NY 6 - P 5, @ PGH	IP	H	R	ER	BB	K	Decision
Blass	3.2	7	3	3	2	2	ND
Seaver	2.0	6	4	4	1	2	ND
4-7-70; NY 5 - P 3; @ NY	IP	H	R	ER	BB	K	Decision
Blass	10	9	3	3	2	9	ND
Seaver	8.0	9	3	3	0	5	ND
6/29/70; NY 3 - P 2; @ NY	IP	H	R	ER	BB	K	Decision
Blass	8.0	10	3	3	2	5	L
Seaver	9.0	5	2	2	1	9	W
9/26/70; P 4 - NY 3; @ PGH	IP	H	R	ER	BB	K	Decision
Blass	4.1	8	3	2	1	3	ND
Seaver	6.2	12	3	3	2	5	ND
9/26/71; NY 3 - P 1; @ NY	IP	H	R	ER	BB	K	Decision
Blass	8.0	10	3	3	3	7	L
Seaver	9.0	1	1	1	1	10	W

The final tallies showed Seaver at 3-0, 2 CG, 43.1 IP, 2.70 ERA (slightly below than his career ERA of 2.86), and Blass at 0-3, 1 CG, 41.2 IP, 3.67 ERA (slightly above his career ERA of 3.63).

In 1967, the Pirates were probably a better team than the Mets.  In 1970 and 1971, the Pirates won the Eastern division both of those years, and were no doubt better, if only slightly, than the Mets. 

It's hard to imagine that the two would not have squared off face-to-face in 1968 or 1969.

Oh, and note that game from September 26, 1971.  Seaver pitched a complete game one-hitter that day against a team that, 21 days later, would win Game Seven of the World Series against Baltimore.  Care to guess who got the lone hit against Seaver that day?  This was a team that included Roberto Clemente, Willie Stargell, Al Oliver, Manny Sanguillen, Richie Hebner, and Bob Robertson.  If you guessed any of those obvious choices, you would be wrong!  If you tell me that you guessed Vic Davillio, you would be correct, but I also wouldn't believe you.

We all remember how Steve Blass' career came to an end, which is unfortunate, because for a period of years in the late '60s through 1972, he was a damn good pitcher, one of the best in the National League.  Tom Seaver, however, was in another world - worlds better than Steve Blass, and just about every other pitcher of his or anyone else's era.  

And I am guessing that Steve Blass would be the first person to tell you that.